NEWS

[xb9fog]

I received an email from a customer recently regarding some statements that were made to him from EBR. I thought I would share this here as it's interesting when you throw different fuel types in as variables.
The sentences in parentheses are the EBR statements, followed by my comments in red.

"if the calibration is extremely mis-matched for the hardware it is used with the learning function can really pt you off in the weeds"
This is an understatement, and the hardware does not need to be that far off for it to 'put you off in the weeds'.
I like that 'put you off in the weeds'. He should have said 'learning just won't work - period"
What happens when a customer uses an exhaust other than the EBR race exhaust with their ecm?


"I've heard at least one person make the statement on his own web site that the 1125 engine will not run well unless it is running more like 13.8:1. This is dead wrong. In the part throttle and tip in region 13.8:1 will make the engine respond sluggishly and not as crisply as it should."

I beg to differ. It is very important to look at all the variables before making a statement like this.
I would agree with him 100% if his statement is based on what they observe using Sunoco 260 GTX race fuel.
This is an assumption that his statement is based on using Sunoco GTX Race fuel, but I highly doubt if they are doing their racing R&D with standard pump gas.
Sunoco 260 GTX formulation is far far away from what you get at the local gas station 93 octane pump fuel with 10% ethanol content.

And the formulation of the fuel makes a big difference at what AF ratio is optimal for a particular engine. Stoich for alcohol/oxygenated blends are richer than that for non-alcohol/oxygenated blends
I'll bet the Helicon just loves Sunoco 260 GTX race fuel at an AF ratio close to 14.7:1. I KNOW it does not like 14.7:1 with pump gas.
If it did, I don't think any of us would even be talking about this, would we?

***********************************************************************************************************


http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consumer/RaceFuels/UnleadedFuels
Sunoco 260 GTX is 98 Octane and is NOT an oxygenated fuel, unlike pump gas.

Quoted from the AMA pro racing website:
"Sunoco 260 GTX unleaded racing fuel, which contains no oxygenates and no metallic additives, will be used in all of the series' classes, including American Superbike, Daytona SportBike, SunTrust MOTO-GT and SuperSport. "



http://www.brighthub.com/engineering/mechanical/articles/15235.aspx
Common fuels

When the composition of a fuel is known, this method can be used to derive the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio. For the most common fuels, this, however, is not necessary because the ratios are known:

Gasoline: 14.7 (real gasoline without alcohol or oxygenated)

Natural gas: 17.2

Propane: 15.5

Ethanol: 9

Methanol: 6.4

Hydrogen: 34

Diesel: 14,6

You may find it interesting that methanol and ethanol both have a very low air-fuel ratio, while the carbon chain length is comparable to methane and ethane. The reason for that is alcohols like methanol and ethanol already carry oxygen themselves, which reduces the need for oxygen from the air.

So the question is in my mind, for an ECM calibration that was originally designed and developed for use with race fuel, what exactly did they do to it to label and market it 'for pump gas'? Where are the details?
Not trying to knock them or question the integrity of their product, just a lot of questions I don't see answers for. Are they living in a 'racing' world, or a 'street use world'?

One of the biggest reasons we see problems today in the OEM calibration is the pump fuel formulation. that, and the fact that narrowband sensors still target 14.7:1 which is stoich for 'real gasoline', the stuff you used to get many years ago or at the race track. If today's narrowband O2 sensors were re-designed to target the real stoich AF Ratio for oxygenated fuels with 10% ethanol, which is appreciably lower, we wouldn't be talking about this.

Now I have found a solution to this dilemma, not my invention only application of such, to be able to very accurately alter the narrowband O2 signal that the ECM sees so that it is a good AF Ratio for modern day pump gas, and fully adjustable.
This is the panacea for many different internal combustion applications, I am sure as I have proven it to myself.
You can run a 13.5:1 AFR (or any ratio you desire) in closed loop with real time sensor feedback and everything (including the ECM) is happy.

[majordad0806]

So Dave, what is the panacea for altering the switch point of the narrowband O2? Mine is disabled and XB12 is dialed in via a Zietronix and wideband. Would be nice to have my map dialed in and then controlled by the O2.

[xb9fog]

Innovate Motorsports LC-1's with the simulated narrowband output for the offset.
Over the years I have tried others, and the Buell ECM did not like. This is compatible.
Your maps have to be dialed in to the same AFR as the LC-1 target AF ratio.
You can still lock the AFV value so it won't learn, if you choose. And allow the realtime O2 correction in the closed loop region.
That''s the way I have mine set up, along with some other tweaks in the ecm to optimize it.

[majordad0806]

I know you said the Zietronix simulated narrowband doesn't play well. So the innovate LC-1 will play well. You mention locking the AFV. I'm assuming you are referring to the 1125 not the XB12

[xb9fog]

The LC=1 plays very well. You can lock the AFV on an XB12 same as 1125

[majordad0806]

I'm on their site now and liking what I see. You mentioned some other tweaks you made. I have my ECM dialed in at 14 for cruise and the WOT areas at 13.2 with a 13.5 transition....she runs great! If I dial in the simulated narrowband at 14 for the CL/LCL regions will I have to make any other tweaks?

Tuning my TIForce has been a challenge to say the least. The lean/rich areas look like what you posted for the 1125--wild swings! Took many hours to get her dialed in.

[Zack]

Dave - thanks for the insights and clarification.
I didn't think to say that I have had and used BDDFI-III manual tuning, not a PFU, for a while now.
The app has been a godsend.

Zack

[Smoke4ndMears]

what's the news on the auto tuner?

Contact Tomas at Motty's Electronics: http://www.afrtuner.com
I got him all the info he needs for setting up this up on the 1125, I just don't have the time to test it.

What you need is the AT2.2 with the ICSM-2C upgrade, and an Innovate Motorsports LC-1 controller, and two Bosch 0 258 007 057 sensors.

They also have a distributor out of Buffalo, Ny
http://www.afrtuner-usa.com

Gear wise it looks pretty straightforward to a technically adept person. I'm supposing the info you gave him was the pinout of the Buell ECU.
Thanks!

[xb9fog]

Yes, that and all the gear ratios (tooth counts) in the engine and transmission, and some info on the VSS.
If you try one out, let us know how it works out.

[d_adams]

So it's roughly $1000 to do this? Holy cow!

[xb9fog]

When you look at what it does, compared to the cost of having a couple of custom dyno tunes done it doesn't look so bad.

I had it figured out as (approx):
AFR Tuner and ICSM-2C Upgrade: $675
LC-1: $150
Bosch Lambda O2 sensor # 17014 (0 258 007 057): $54
(Last two items are ebay pricing)

That's $879, so it will be around $900

[Smoke4ndMears]

The last question I have before I get the gear is this: how can I avoid throwing codes when I unplug the o2 sensors -will I have to get dummy devices?

[xb9fog]

The last question I have before I get the gear is this: how can I avoid throwing codes when I unplug the o2 sensors -will I have to get dummy devices?

All you would need to do is change the following two parameters in the ecm:
O2 min RPM for test - set to a value greater than the rev limiter RPM to disable
O2 min RPM for activation - set to a value greater than rev limiter RPM to disable
This will eliminate any CEL and codes. And it will also prevent the ecm's closed loop operation and learning.
You don't want the ECM to adjust itself (learn) as it will try to counteract the AFRTuner adjustments.

I would also set the AFV(s) values to something that gets you fairly close to your target AF ratio, but this is probably not necessary, as the AFRTuner will correct for it.

[Smoke4ndMears]

Ok dave, thanks. This is what the performance flash in the bike is already doing so thats good. Ordering soon. Once it's all in and done I'll probably post up on the buelletin board.

[xb9fog]

great, keep us posted